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Author Topic: Electric fuel pump  (Read 2737 times)

Screaming Bear

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2017, 07:35:08 AM »

You probably have the instalation instructions, but here's the link if you don't. It has some troubleshooting tips.
http://www.howellefi.com/pdfs/jeep_kit.pdf

If your fuel pressure is good but there is no injector pulse, I would think you are on the right track with coil signal/ tach filter. I have a spare 1227747 ECM but doubt both injector drivers are toast on yours.
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51 CJ3-A, 4.3 TBI Chevy, SM420, Dana 18TC, 30/44 Full Floaters, Yukon Front Axle and Hubs, rear drive flanges, Detroit Fr / E-Locker Rr, 4.27:1 Gears, 74:1, HD steering / 4 wheel disk brakes, Viair 550C, 100% LED - VisionX headlights, Rigid Light-bar, DOT Fogs, Grote tail, Soft Top and Heater, 35"KM-2's, 3" up, no articulation - it works

Mr.B

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2017, 08:23:10 AM »

I know you probably have this manual too. But page 14 has a troubleshooting guide.

http://howellefi.com/pdfs/MODEL-JP1-2BARRELTHROTTLEBODYREV15.pdf
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White '94 YJ 2.5L 5 speed, 35" BFGs KM2's, 5" lift, Mark VII 2 speed fan, Milemarker PE8000, Front Aussie Locker, Power steering conversion, '98 Cavalier seats, MORE Boomerangs in front, 136 amp ZJ alternator, JB conversions SYE, Tom Woods custom drive shaft, 8.8 with ARB, 4.88 gear ratio, Teralow

You're a super genius....
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein

timatoe

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2017, 09:50:14 PM »

Was able to sneak out of the orientation for a bit this morning and called Howell.  They agreed with my current thought of tach signal, shipping one out today UPS overnight.  Hopefully it'll get here early enough tomorrow I can get it in and running etc.
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Mr.B

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2017, 10:38:17 PM »

Sounds good. I hope it works. You'll be coming up no matter what though?
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White '94 YJ 2.5L 5 speed, 35" BFGs KM2's, 5" lift, Mark VII 2 speed fan, Milemarker PE8000, Front Aussie Locker, Power steering conversion, '98 Cavalier seats, MORE Boomerangs in front, 136 amp ZJ alternator, JB conversions SYE, Tom Woods custom drive shaft, 8.8 with ARB, 4.88 gear ratio, Teralow

You're a super genius....
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein

timatoe

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2017, 10:19:07 AM »

I will be there no matter what.  Robert and his son and our buddy Sean are all meeting at my place and we'll head out from there.

The tach filter just showed up.  I'm gonna head out there in a minute and see if we can't get this pig going.
$50 part, $46.95 for overnight shipping, ugh.
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timatoe

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2017, 01:11:28 PM »

Good News!!  Bad News!!

Good news is, I cut the harness open, pulled the old tach filter out and put the new one in and it fired right up.

Bad news is, I taped everything back together on the harness put the ECM back in place, started getting everything buttoned up and thought..... I should check again before I get everything back together.  Turned the key, it fired for a second and wouldn't start.  Now I'm right back to the exact same issue.  Something in there is blowing that little tach filter circuit.  Called Howell and the tech guy is busy, will try back in a half hour.
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Mr.B

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2017, 01:29:43 PM »

Can you take a picture of it? Is it just a capacitor or something?
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White '94 YJ 2.5L 5 speed, 35" BFGs KM2's, 5" lift, Mark VII 2 speed fan, Milemarker PE8000, Front Aussie Locker, Power steering conversion, '98 Cavalier seats, MORE Boomerangs in front, 136 amp ZJ alternator, JB conversions SYE, Tom Woods custom drive shaft, 8.8 with ARB, 4.88 gear ratio, Teralow

You're a super genius....
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein

Mr.B

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2017, 01:33:18 PM »

You may have an open wire in the harness. Take all the tape off that you put on, and put everything back to where you had it to test.
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White '94 YJ 2.5L 5 speed, 35" BFGs KM2's, 5" lift, Mark VII 2 speed fan, Milemarker PE8000, Front Aussie Locker, Power steering conversion, '98 Cavalier seats, MORE Boomerangs in front, 136 amp ZJ alternator, JB conversions SYE, Tom Woods custom drive shaft, 8.8 with ARB, 4.88 gear ratio, Teralow

You're a super genius....
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein

timatoe

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2017, 02:54:31 PM »

Yeah, I did all that, still no worky.

Got a hold of Troy at Howell.  He said something is causing it to blow, the filter gets its input from the tach signal (on mine it's a HEI) he said if it blew two of them I'm most likely getting a voltage spike from the HEI module to the filter causing it to blow out.  I'm going to go try and get all that worked out and I'll have another filter overnighted tomorrow morning.  Best case at that point is late Thursday we'll roll out with the Jeep, worse case is late Thursday we'll roll out without the Jeep.
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Screaming Bear

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2017, 03:29:08 PM »

Just for reference. The EST signal goes to D4 pin on the ECM. Are you sure the stress on the plug isn't causing a poor connection. I had that problem for years with my harness. I have new pin sockets for the ECM plug if you need any.

Are you getting a CODE 42 ?
Trouble Code 42 indicates that there may be a malfunction in the Electronic Spark Timing (EST) system. During cranking, the timing is controlled by the ignition module and the ECM grounds the EST line. It expects to see no activity on this line at this time. When the ECM enters EST mode, it applies +5 volts to the BYPASS line and expects to see voltage variations on the EST line.
Reasons for the ECM to set Code 42:
?   System in BYPASS mode (i.e. EST line supposedly grounded) but activity sensed on EST line
?   System in EST mode (i.e. BYPASS line driven with +5 volts) but no activity seen on the EST line

Possible causes include:
1.   BYPASS line is open or grounded
2.   EST line is open or grounded
3.   Poor connections between ignition module and ECM
4.   Poor routing of EST harness and/or poor quality ignition wires (EMI induced electrical noise
5.   Faulty or incorrect ignition module
6.   Faulty ECM
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 05:18:29 PM by Screaming Bear »
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51 CJ3-A, 4.3 TBI Chevy, SM420, Dana 18TC, 30/44 Full Floaters, Yukon Front Axle and Hubs, rear drive flanges, Detroit Fr / E-Locker Rr, 4.27:1 Gears, 74:1, HD steering / 4 wheel disk brakes, Viair 550C, 100% LED - VisionX headlights, Rigid Light-bar, DOT Fogs, Grote tail, Soft Top and Heater, 35"KM-2's, 3" up, no articulation - it works

timatoe

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2017, 05:30:19 PM »

Here's what the filter looks like out of the harnes....



The Howell kit is a fuel only kit (apparently that's a requirement for it to be CA legal) so no EST.  Set the timing and forget it.
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timatoe

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #31 on: July 11, 2017, 05:31:18 PM »

Yeah, so that's a micro pic when you click on the link.  I don't know how to actually link the pic using flickr.
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timatoe

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #32 on: July 11, 2017, 05:31:57 PM »

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timatoe

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #33 on: July 11, 2017, 05:32:15 PM »

Still micro pics
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Screaming Bear

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #34 on: July 11, 2017, 06:35:05 PM »

EST signal is also used to trigger the injector driver. Both injectors use a common driver. A shorted injector will overload the driver. Have you tried unplugging one injector at a time?  I've been watching many videos, this one and some of his others are very informative but not Howell kit specific. Good luck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KF9viLxwJNc
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 07:51:56 PM by Screaming Bear »
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51 CJ3-A, 4.3 TBI Chevy, SM420, Dana 18TC, 30/44 Full Floaters, Yukon Front Axle and Hubs, rear drive flanges, Detroit Fr / E-Locker Rr, 4.27:1 Gears, 74:1, HD steering / 4 wheel disk brakes, Viair 550C, 100% LED - VisionX headlights, Rigid Light-bar, DOT Fogs, Grote tail, Soft Top and Heater, 35"KM-2's, 3" up, no articulation - it works

timatoe

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #35 on: July 11, 2017, 08:36:17 PM »

So just unplug the actual injector, turn it over then try the other?  Of course, I was about to go out and try that real quick, but I already cut the other tach filter out of the harness.
« Last Edit: July 11, 2017, 08:44:50 PM by timatoe »
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timatoe

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2017, 10:04:07 PM »

I was just thinking about the shorted injector thing.  It would seem they still wouldn't work even with the new tach filter in place if that was happening.  The both were spraying fuel fine when it did start this morning.
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Mr.B

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2017, 10:24:07 PM »

I have no experience with your set up. But I would have to agree with you on that part. What would happen if you tried to temporarily bypass the tach filter?
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White '94 YJ 2.5L 5 speed, 35" BFGs KM2's, 5" lift, Mark VII 2 speed fan, Milemarker PE8000, Front Aussie Locker, Power steering conversion, '98 Cavalier seats, MORE Boomerangs in front, 136 amp ZJ alternator, JB conversions SYE, Tom Woods custom drive shaft, 8.8 with ARB, 4.88 gear ratio, Teralow

You're a super genius....
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein

Screaming Bear

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #38 on: July 12, 2017, 06:34:14 AM »

I have no experience with your set up. But I would have to agree with you on that part. What would happen if you tried to temporarily bypass the tach filter?
I wonder if Tim's ignition module has the same output voltage as the GM ECM is looking for. On GM it runs directly. That filter might drop the voltage. Who knows, it might be a ground signal...
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51 CJ3-A, 4.3 TBI Chevy, SM420, Dana 18TC, 30/44 Full Floaters, Yukon Front Axle and Hubs, rear drive flanges, Detroit Fr / E-Locker Rr, 4.27:1 Gears, 74:1, HD steering / 4 wheel disk brakes, Viair 550C, 100% LED - VisionX headlights, Rigid Light-bar, DOT Fogs, Grote tail, Soft Top and Heater, 35"KM-2's, 3" up, no articulation - it works

Mr.B

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Re: Electric fuel pump
« Reply #39 on: July 12, 2017, 07:10:42 AM »

Doug, don't those brown components look like fuses?




When you see a bigger pic of the filter, you also read the IC part#. So I found this:

http://noel.feld.cvut.cz/hw/motorola/books/dl129/pdf/mc74hc14arev7.pdf

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White '94 YJ 2.5L 5 speed, 35" BFGs KM2's, 5" lift, Mark VII 2 speed fan, Milemarker PE8000, Front Aussie Locker, Power steering conversion, '98 Cavalier seats, MORE Boomerangs in front, 136 amp ZJ alternator, JB conversions SYE, Tom Woods custom drive shaft, 8.8 with ARB, 4.88 gear ratio, Teralow

You're a super genius....
The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits. -Albert Einstein
Pages: 1 [2] 3